"Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly." (2)
Their Eyes Were Watching God: Forward - Mary Helen Washington
"The language of the men in [the novel] is almost always divorced from any kind of interiority, and the men are rarely shown in the process of growth." (xv)
This first quote explains that unlike men, women do not differentiate dreams and reality, do you think this is true? What are some examples of this in Hurston's writing? How has the novel benefited from not showing the growth of male characters?
"'Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it's some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don't know nothin' but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don't tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world as fur as Ah can see. Ah been prayin' ger it tuh be different wid you. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd!'" (p. 14) From "their Eyes Were Watching God" by Z.N. Hurston
"[Their Eyes Were Watching God], [Richard Wright] said, 'carries no theme, no message, no thought,' but exploited those 'quaint' aspects of Negro life that satisfied the tastes of a white audience." From Forword to "Their Eyes Were Watching God" by Mary Helen Washington
How does Their Eyes Were Watching God seem to pander to the 'white audience,' as Wright suggests? What style choices influence Wright's conclusion? In what ways is Wright incorrect in his assessment? What is Nanny trying to express about the patriarchy that Wright is clearly overlooking? How does Nanny's perspective just validate the review produced by Wright?
Their Eyes Were Watching God - Hurston "Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it’s some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don’t know nothin’ but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don’t tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see" (14).
Foreword - Washington "By the end of the forties, a decade dominated by Wright and by the stormy fiction of social realism, the quieter voice of a woman searching for self-realization could not, or would not, be heard" (x).
I picked one of the most iconic lines from Their Eyes Were Watching God because it is the most dynamic and one of the most beautiful lines in the entire novel. Not to mention powerful. But it speaks of an awful truth. The white man is the most powerful human being in the world, and the black woman is the least powerful, and least protected (aside from, perhaps, the black, transgender woman, which is a topic not touched on in this book).
It would be easy to simply ask "why?" but we all know why. Because those with all the "desirable" traits from birth are in the seat of power, and the people with the most prejudice against them are the most discriminated against. So, the better question is, why do people often refuse to acknowledge this discrimination? And why do many people in groups discriminated against not recognize the discrimination of other groups (i.e. people of color, women, transgender people, gay/lesbian people)?
"Janie did what she had never done before, that is, thrust herself into the conversation. 'Sometimes God gits familiar wid us womenfolks too and talks His inside business. He told me how surprised He was 'bout y'all turning out so smart after Him makin' yuh different; and how surprised y'all is goin' tuh be if you ever find out you don't know half as much 'bout us as you think you do. It's easy to make yo'self out God Almighty when you ain't got nothin' tuh strain against but women and chickens.' 'You gettin' too moufy, Janie,' Starks told her. 'Go fetch me de checker-board and de checkers. Sam Watson, you'se mah fish'" (75).
Foreward by Mary Helen Washington
"What Their Eyes shows us is a woman writer struggling with the problem of the questing hero as woman and the difficulties in 1937 of giving a woman character such power and such daring" (xvi).
For me, this scene in Hurston's novel epitomizes what Washington is saying here. Janie, for the first time in the novel's progression and in her life thus far, decides to speak up against the men around her. She is immediately silenced, belittled by a statement as simple as "'You gettin' too moufy'" (75). Hurston uses this as an example of how women who tried to be heard, who tried to be the figure of the "questing hero" (xvi), were treated by their (dominantly male) society. Knowing this, how would you describe the challenges that Hurston faced as an author attempting to write powerful female characters? Specifically in the context of the time she was writing?
Foreward: Mary Helen Washington "Janie telling her story to a listening woman friend, Pheoby, suggests to me all those women readers who discovered their own tale in Janie's story and passed it on from one to another; and certainly, as the novel represents a woman redefining and revising a male dominated canon, these readers have, like Janie, made their voices heard in the world of letters, revising the canon while asserting their proper place in it" (xvii).
Their Eyes Were Watching God: Zora Neale Hurston "The young girl was gone, but a handsome woman had taken her place. She tore off the kerchief from her head and let down her plentiful hair. The weight, the length, the glory was there. She took careful stock of herself, then combed her hair and tied it back up again. Then she starched and ironed her face, forming it into just what people wanted to see, and opened up the window and cried, "Come heah people! Jody is dead. Mah husband is gone from me" (87).
As I read Hurston's work, I was reminded of the importance of telling stories. Just as Janie tells Pheoby her story, we must share our stories (just as we do in our commonplace/in-class). What are the benefits of "telling our story?" Although there are instances where Janie's voice is not heard, I found the moments she was empowered and strong to be worth the silence. With self-realization, she became more complete. Do you agree? Why or why not?
The benefit to share a story or stories with another individual is a good way for others to draw a connection or even a conclusion as to what they are discussing in their story. I believe she became more complete after she self reflected/realize on what she was doing had to be different. As humans we tend to reflect back on things and in this case it was Janie who self reflected.
“This business of the head-rag irked her endlessly. But Jody was set on it. Her hair was NOT going to show in the store. It didn’t seem sensible at all. That was because Joe never told Janie how jealous he was. He never told her how often he had seen the other men figuratively wallowing in it as she went about things in the store. And one night he had caught Walter standing behind and brushing the back of his hand back and forth across the loose end of her braid ever so lightly so as to enjoy the feel of it without Janie knowing what he was doing. Joe was at the back of the store and Walter didn’t see him. He felt like rushing forth with the meat knife and chopping off the offending hand. That night he ordered Janie to tie up her hair around the store. That was all. She was there in the store for him to look at, not those others.” From Hurston’s Their Eyes Were Watching God
“There is a lovely symmetry between text and context in the case of Their Eyes: as Their Eyes affirms and celebrates black culture it reflects that same affirmation of black culture that rekindled interest in the text; Janie telling her story to a listening woman friend, Pheoby, suggests to me all those women readers who discovered their own tale in Janie's story and passed it on from one to another; and certainly, as the novel represents a woman redefining and revising a male-dominated canon, these readers have, like Janie, made their voices heard in the world of letters, revising the canon while asserting their proper place in it” From Mary Helen Washington’s Foreword
Most of what we’ve read so far have dealt with the white, male patriarchy. How does Hurston depict the black, male patriarchy in this novel? Is it any different from the white, male patriarchy? is Washington right, does Janie redefine and revise this predominantly black, male dominated world that Hurston has created?
"So long as they get a name to gnaw on they don't care whose it is, and what about, 'specially if they can make it sound like evil"
People are going to talk about others. It happens all the time. People talk regardless, sometimes even to make themselves look good. people twist words and say things that are not true, or dont even tell the whole truth. I just dont know why Janie would put her self in that situation even though she has nothing to come back to or left nothing behind in the Glades. Not that she cares what people say about her. I just find as if she is worth better then the things her neighbors say behind her back. And even men talk behind peoples backs especially women.
She's Gotta Have It- film by Spike Lee (a parallel to Their Eyes Were Watching God) "Nola Darling: It's really about control, my body, my mind. Who was going to own it? Them? Or me?"
It seems out of all the things we have read in class, men seem to be lurking in the shadows or are very depicted in a story. When will there come a time when a woman can write a novel or an essay and not bring up the notion of a man? can Women write with out ever bringing up men? Men do it all the time, as if women would never exist if they were not written into reality, so why can't women do the same with men?
I do not think that a women can ever not write about a man because, as women it has been socially in grained in us to feel bad about anything we do or say towards men in passive aggressive ways. We have been made to feel bad about things we do or say. And in that turn because we do not want to feel bad any more we either stop doing what we were doing or let the aggression continue.
"Dat's right, blame everything on me. Ah wouldn't let you show no feelin'!...Now you come blame me"
Their Eyes Were Watching God-- Hurston “The years took all the fight out of Janie’s face. For a while she thought it was gone from her soul. No matter what Janie did, she said nothing. She had learned how to talk some and leave some. She was a rut in the road. Plenty of life beneath the surface but it was kept beaten down by the wheels. Sometimes she stuck out into the future, imagining her life different from what it was. But mostly she lived between her hat and her heels, with her emotional disturbances like shade patterns in the woods – come and gone with the sun.” (pg 76)
Washington—Forward “Sterling Brown said in 1936 of her earlier book Mules and Men that it was not bitter enough, that it did not depict the harsher side of black life in the South, that Hurston made black southern life appear easygoing and carefree.”
Guiding Questions: The forward for the book shows the pushback that it initially received from the male African American community. Women, however, found this book easy to identify with. Was it, perhaps, that the male audience found it more difficult to identify partially because the book had a female protagonist? Or do you think that their prejudice really was solely based on what they considered contemporary inaccuracies?
"Here, finally, was a woman on a quest for her own identity and, unlike so many other questing figures in black literature, her journey would take her, not away from ,but deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the Everglades with its rich, black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions." (Forward, xi, Washington)
"Sometimes God gits familiar wid us womenfolks too and talks His inside business. He told me how surprised He was 'bout y'all turning out so smart after Him making' yuh different; and how surprised y'all is goin' tuh be if you ever find out you don't know half as much 'bout us as you think you do. It's so easy to make yo'self out God Almighty when you ain't got nothin' tuh strain against but women and chickens."
"You gettin' too moufy, Janie," Starks told her. "Go fetch me de checker-board and de checkers. Sam Watson, you'se mah fish."" (Their Eyes Were Watching God, p. 75)
Guiding questions: Washington suggests that Janie is on a quest for her own identity. What is she trying to learn about herself? As a woman? As a person of color? What does she learn about herself, and how? How is Janie different from white female protagonists?
I think Janie is striving to learn who she is as an individual, as a woman who isn't tied down to a man, and/or a woman who is capable of being independent, strong, and having her own voice, despite romantic affiliations. Janie's own voice is very important to her and to the identity she is trying to find/achieve, and she wants the opportunity to use it freely. However, sometimes her independence and her voice are oppressed because she is a woman. This is first seen in chapter two when her grandmother claims she wants to have Janie married off, and Janie is not afraid to admit that she does not want anything to do with a husband. Throughout the book, Janie learns of her own strength, resilience, and the independence she finds through those other qualities and through certain events in her life that require her to have such qualities. Janie is different from many white female protagonists I have read before in that she is not afraid to speak her mind, to have her own voice, etc. However, she is also different because of the environments and communities she is a part of, which seem much more communal, public, and all-knowing than settings containing white protagonists, which I think is in part due to the storytelling aspect of this book and the communities within. Janie is much more included in the sense of community, partially because she asserts herself and inserts herself into the communities she is a part of.
“The language of men in Their Eyes is almost always divorced from any kind of interiority, and the men are rarely shown in the process of growth. Their talking is either a game or a method of exerting power.” (xv) -Foreword Their Eyes Were Watching God Mary Helen Washington
“Dat’s ‘cause you need tellin’,” he rejoined hotly. “It would be pitiful if Ah didn’t. Somebody got to think for women and chillun and chickens and cows. I god, they sho don’t think none theirselves.” “Ah knows uh few things, an womenfolks thinks sometimes too!” “Aw naw they don’t. They just think they’s thinkin’. When Ah see one thing Ah understands ten. You see ten things and don’t understand one.” (71) -Their Eyes Were Watching God Zora Neale Hurston
Guiding Questions: Do you think the way that Joe talks to Janie is a way to gain power because he knows that she is actually much smarter than he makes her out to be in his language? What does his comparison to women and livestock show about his characters?
I think that Joe talks to and treats Janie the way that he does is because he does realize that she is capable of thinking in ways that may even be more sophisticated than his own way of thinking. An example from the book is when Janie is getting upset when the men in town are harassing the mule and she says that he has already been worked to death. Earlier on Joe was laughing at the treatment of the mule and after he hears her say what she does he stops the men and offers Matt money for his mule so he can set the mule free and let him rest from his labor. This shows that Joe’s idea of saving the mule really came from him hearing Janie’s distress although Joe takes credit for the idea himself. Joe thinks of women as something to gain power over. He tells Janie that she is not capable of thought as a way to dehumanize her and put her into a lower position than himself. I think that these words stem from a fear within himself that Janie does have thoughts and she has enough thoughts that she will gain power over him by thinking for herself. This moment in the story shows Janie standing up for herself somewhat too and that is why Joe starts to say that he has to think for her as to regain full control of power.
Hurston- "Their Eyes Were Watching God" "What was she losing so much time for? A feeling of sudden newness and change came over her. Janie hurried out of the front gate and turned south. Even if Joe was not there waiting for her, the change was bound to do her good."
Washington- "Forward for 'Their Eyes Were Watching God'" "Here, finally, was a woman on a quest for her own identity, and, unlike so many questing figures in black literature, her journey would take her, not away from, deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the Everglades with its rich black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions."
Guiding Questions: Janie moves through marriages very early within the novel. Why do you think Hurston decided to make these events happen so quickly one after the other? Also, Edna Pontellier, too, was a woman on a quest to discover herself. In what ways are Janie and Edna alike in characteristics, and what ways are they different? What makes their journeys different, even though they are ultimately after the same goal? If both characters were alive in modern times, would they still have the same struggles as they did in their respective time periods?
Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it’s some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don’t know nothin’ but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don’t tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see" (14)
http://newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm
Guiding Question: How can we one have their own identity regardless of race, sex or social status and maintain power without their identity being affected by it?
Their Eyes Were Watching God – Zora Neale Hurston "Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it’s some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don’t know nothin’ but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don’t tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see. Ah been prayin’ fuh it tuh be different wid you" (17).
Forward – Mary Helen Washington “Here, finally, was a woman on a quest for her own identity and, unlike so many other questing figures in black literature, her journey would take her, not away from, but deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the everglades with its rich black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions” (xi).
Guiding Questions: When someone is on a journey to find their own identity, how must it feel to have someone tell you there is a whole race of people against you? Do you think this comment discouraged or empowered her? Is it important for authority figures to prepare younger people for the challenges in the world or should they let them experience them on their own? Is it different between race, gender, and sexual orientation? All oppression is connected, but does someone at risk of oppression need to have a preceding warning? What happens to those who do not get these warnings?
"They bowed down to him rather, because he was all things and then again he was all these things because the town bowed down," (Their Eyes Are Watching God, 59).
"A leader without a clear vision and plans only abuses power because visions, dreams and plans are the fulcrum along with the loads of success will spine by your own efforts. And where power is abused, there is manipulation instead of inspiration." -Israelmore Ayvior
Was Janie actually better off with Joe, or should she have stayed loyal to her first husband? How are these two men so different, yet so alike? What does the switching from abusers say about Janie? Could her grandma's manipulation be a sly form of abuse which set Janie up to jump from relationship to relationship based on initial interaction yet staying after things turned sour?
I definitely think Jamie's grandma was an abuser. She was incredibly manipulative, which is a form of abuse very often overlooked.
"Ah couldn't love yuh no more if Ah had uh felt yo' birth pains mahself. Fact uh de matter, Ah loves yuh a whole heap more'n Ah do yo' mama, de one Ah did birth... You ain't got nobody but me," (18).
By saying this, Nanny made Janie feel bad and indebted to her. Janie puts her trust in this woman because she has no one else and therefore is incredibly misguided. This lends itself to her first marriage.
Her first marriage was a direct result of the aforementioned quote from Nanny. Janie was guilt ed into marrying a man, and lied to that she would grow to love him, because the person who said "you ain't got nobody but me" told her it was so. If the only person she believed to have on her side said it was true, then it must be true.
Then Nanny dies and Joe comes into the picture. Joe is nice to Janie in a way she was not used to. Her husband was treating her like turd, even more so after the passing of her grandmother. Joe saunters into town and treats her like a person in a way she was not used to.
"Shirley Anne Williams remembers going down to a conference in Los Angeles in 1969 where the main speaker, Toni Cade Bambara, asked the women in the audience, "Are the sisters here ready for Tea Cake?" And Williams, remembering that Tea Cake had his flaws, responded, "Are the Tea Cakes of the world ready for us?" - Washington Foreword (xi)
"What was she losing so much time for? A feeling of sudden newness and change came over her. Janie hurried out of the front gate and turned south. Even if Joe was not there waiting for her, the change was bound to do her good." - Hurston, Their Eyes Were Watching God (pg.40)
Guiding Question: On Tumblr I recently saw a post that says "Empowered women empower women." Their Eyes Were Watching God showed women of the time that women were not always weak and weak willed, that they could stand their ground and discover who they are. Still, like the woman at the convention, when questions are directed to crowds it's "are you ready for (typically male character)?!" why do you think the put emphasis on the male characters still when there are such wonderful female characters around?
8. Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston & Foreword by Mary Helen Washington 2-24-16 - Quote from the text: “The rose of the world was breathing out smell. It followed her through all her waking moments and caressed her in her sleep. It connected itself with other vaguely felt matters that had struck her outside observation and buried themselves in her flesh. Now they emerged and quested about her consciousness.” (Hurston 10-11)
- Foreword Quote: “. . . unlike so many other questing figures in black literature, (Janie’s) journey would take her, not away from, but deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the Everglades with its rich black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions” (Washington xi).
- Guiding Question: Our society has been so dominated by the figure of and structures created by the white male that other voices have been suppressed. Are different nationalities and races heard in the country supposedly founded on being a melting pot and freedom? The things we have always been so proud of appear to be lacking here. . . . Can you think of other strong heroines in literature? (ones who aren’t “pathetic” or “tragic mulatto(s)”?) Other heroes or heroines of other races in literature? What time period are they from? Are more of them contemporary or earlier decades / centuries?
Their Eyes Were Watching God - Hurston "Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly."
Washington- "Forward for 'Their Eyes Were Watching God'" "For most Black women discovering their Eyes were watching God for the first time was Janie Crawford."
Question:Their Eyes Were Watching God is a book that for me really defined intersectionality. Zora Neale Hurston is often criticized however because she lived as a free black women, yet her writing allows even white women to empathize. How can one act as a voice for an entire group of people? Are there problems with Zora's depiction of black women? Are there problems with Zora being the author of a book about how blak women are "the mules of the world."
"What she doin coming back here in dem overhalls? Can’t she find no dress to put on? – Where’s dat blue satin dress she left here in? – Where all dat money her husband took and died and left her? – What dat ole forty year ole ‘oman doin’ wid her hair swingin’ down her back lak some young gal? – Where she left dat young lad of a boy she went off here wid? – Thought she was going to marry? – Where he left her? – What he done wid all her money? – Betcha he off wid some gal so young she ain’t even got no hairs – Why she don’t stay in her class?" Their Eyes Were Watching God
"...For most black women readers... what was most compelling was the figure of Janie Crawford-- powerful, articulate, self-reliant and radically different from any woman character they had ever before encountered in literature."
Guiding Question
Women have always looked up to other strong women, and yet it seems a common occurrence for strong women to tear other strong women down. How do you think different audiences reacted to Janie Crawford? What kind of people wouldn't have liked her? How can women better support each other in today's society?
"What she doin coming back here in dem overhalls? Can’t she find no dress to put on? – Where’s dat blue satin dress she left here in? – Where all dat money her husband took and died and left her? – What dat ole forty year ole ‘oman doin’ wid her hair swingin’ down her back lak some young gal? – Where she left dat young lad of a boy she went off here wid? – Thought she was going to marry? – Where he left her? – What he done wid all her money? – Betcha he off wid some gal so young she ain’t even got no hairs – Why she don’t stay in her class?" Their Eyes Were Watching God
"...For most black women readers... what was most compelling was the figure of Janie Crawford-- powerful, articulate, self-reliant and radically different from any woman character they had ever before encountered in literature."
Guiding Question
Women have always looked up to other strong women, and yet it seems a common occurrence for strong women to tear other strong women down. How do you think different audiences reacted to Janie Crawford? What kind of people wouldn't have liked her? How can women better support each other in today's society?
My question is very critical and it’s hard for me to respond in an unbiased manner. Hurston is one of my favorite authors, and this book very much defines femininity for me. I don’t think it was Hurston’s goal to speak for an entire group of people. She’s a novelist. She was trying to write a novel. Reading Washington’s Forward upset me. The black male critics of the day didn’t get it. Sure Hurston did not live Janie’s life, but what she wrote was far from quaint, far from pandering, but what do I know, I’m white. Nothing in Their Eyes Were Watching god seemed envious, to me it depicted a struggle. It wasn’t talking about the white black struggle because Hurston wasn’t trying to speak for all black people. She was writing about the struggle between men and women. Men and women who are both oppressed. I think this novel is necessary for black women because white feminism doesn’t depict their plight. Hurston was attacked because she was critical of black men, she was also critical of black women. She showcased the way the oppressed oppress each other. The line I chose to quote depicts the flaws of women. They help keep themselves oppressed by refusing to break the mold. It can be argued that Hurston thought that black people were keeping themselves oppressed. I think this is true, not to say that oppressors aren’t oppressing but that the oppressed come to believe certain Myths about themselves.
Their Eyes Were Watching God - Hurston
ReplyDelete"Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly." (2)
Their Eyes Were Watching God: Forward - Mary Helen Washington
"The language of the men in [the novel] is almost always divorced from any kind of interiority, and the men are rarely shown in the process of growth." (xv)
This first quote explains that unlike men, women do not differentiate dreams and reality, do you think this is true? What are some examples of this in Hurston's writing? How has the novel benefited from not showing the growth of male characters?
"'Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it's some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don't know nothin' but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don't tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world as fur as Ah can see. Ah been prayin' ger it tuh be different wid you. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd!'" (p. 14)
ReplyDeleteFrom "their Eyes Were Watching God" by Z.N. Hurston
"[Their Eyes Were Watching God], [Richard Wright] said, 'carries no theme, no message, no thought,' but exploited those 'quaint' aspects of Negro life that satisfied the tastes of a white audience."
From Forword to "Their Eyes Were Watching God" by Mary Helen Washington
How does Their Eyes Were Watching God seem to pander to the 'white audience,' as Wright suggests? What style choices influence Wright's conclusion? In what ways is Wright incorrect in his assessment?
What is Nanny trying to express about the patriarchy that Wright is clearly overlooking? How does Nanny's perspective just validate the review produced by Wright?
Their Eyes Were Watching God - Hurston
ReplyDelete"Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it’s some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don’t know nothin’ but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don’t tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see" (14).
Foreword - Washington
"By the end of the forties, a decade dominated by Wright and by the stormy fiction of social realism, the quieter voice of a woman searching for self-realization could not, or would not, be heard" (x).
I picked one of the most iconic lines from Their Eyes Were Watching God because it is the most dynamic and one of the most beautiful lines in the entire novel. Not to mention powerful. But it speaks of an awful truth. The white man is the most powerful human being in the world, and the black woman is the least powerful, and least protected (aside from, perhaps, the black, transgender woman, which is a topic not touched on in this book).
It would be easy to simply ask "why?" but we all know why. Because those with all the "desirable" traits from birth are in the seat of power, and the people with the most prejudice against them are the most discriminated against. So, the better question is, why do people often refuse to acknowledge this discrimination? And why do many people in groups discriminated against not recognize the discrimination of other groups (i.e. people of color, women, transgender people, gay/lesbian people)?
Their Eyes Were Watching God - Zora Neale Hurston
ReplyDelete"Janie did what she had never done before, that is, thrust herself into the conversation.
'Sometimes God gits familiar wid us womenfolks too and talks His inside business. He told me how surprised He was 'bout y'all turning out so smart after Him makin' yuh different; and how surprised y'all is goin' tuh be if you ever find out you don't know half as much 'bout us as you think you do. It's easy to make yo'self out God Almighty when you ain't got nothin' tuh strain against but women and chickens.'
'You gettin' too moufy, Janie,' Starks told her. 'Go fetch me de checker-board and de checkers. Sam Watson, you'se mah fish'" (75).
Foreward by Mary Helen Washington
"What Their Eyes shows us is a woman writer struggling with the problem of the questing hero as woman and the difficulties in 1937 of giving a woman character such power and such daring" (xvi).
For me, this scene in Hurston's novel epitomizes what Washington is saying here. Janie, for the first time in the novel's progression and in her life thus far, decides to speak up against the men around her. She is immediately silenced, belittled by a statement as simple as "'You gettin' too moufy'" (75). Hurston uses this as an example of how women who tried to be heard, who tried to be the figure of the "questing hero" (xvi), were treated by their (dominantly male) society. Knowing this, how would you describe the challenges that Hurston faced as an author attempting to write powerful female characters? Specifically in the context of the time she was writing?
Foreward: Mary Helen Washington
ReplyDelete"Janie telling her story to a listening woman friend, Pheoby, suggests to me all those women readers who discovered their own tale in Janie's story and passed it on from one to another; and certainly, as the novel represents a woman redefining and revising a male dominated canon, these readers have, like Janie, made their voices heard in the world of letters, revising the canon while asserting their proper place in it" (xvii).
Their Eyes Were Watching God: Zora Neale Hurston
"The young girl was gone, but a handsome woman had taken her place. She tore off the kerchief from her head and let down her plentiful hair. The weight, the length, the glory was there. She took careful stock of herself, then combed her hair and tied it back up again. Then she starched and ironed her face, forming it into just what people wanted to see, and opened up the window and cried, "Come heah people! Jody is dead. Mah husband is gone from me" (87).
As I read Hurston's work, I was reminded of the importance of telling stories. Just as Janie tells Pheoby her story, we must share our stories (just as we do in our commonplace/in-class). What are the benefits of "telling our story?" Although there are instances where Janie's voice is not heard, I found the moments she was empowered and strong to be worth the silence. With self-realization, she became more complete. Do you agree? Why or why not?
The benefit to share a story or stories with another individual is a good way for others to draw a connection or even a conclusion as to what they are discussing in their story. I believe she became more complete after she self reflected/realize on what she was doing had to be different. As humans we tend to reflect back on things and in this case it was Janie who self reflected.
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ReplyDelete“This business of the head-rag irked her endlessly. But Jody was set on it. Her hair was NOT going to show in the store. It didn’t seem sensible at all. That was because Joe never told Janie how jealous he was. He never told her how often he had seen the other men figuratively wallowing in it as she went about things in the store. And one night he had caught Walter standing behind and brushing the back of his hand back and forth across the loose end of her braid ever so lightly so as to enjoy the feel of it without Janie knowing what he was doing. Joe was at the back of the store and Walter didn’t see him. He felt like rushing forth with the meat knife and chopping off the offending hand. That night he ordered Janie to tie up her hair around the store. That was all. She was there in the store for him to look at, not those others.” From Hurston’s Their Eyes Were Watching God
ReplyDelete“There is a lovely symmetry between text and context in the case of Their Eyes: as Their Eyes affirms and celebrates black culture it reflects that same affirmation of black culture that rekindled interest in the text; Janie telling her story to a listening woman friend, Pheoby, suggests to me all those women readers who discovered their own tale in Janie's story and passed it on from one to another; and certainly, as the novel represents a woman redefining and revising a male-dominated canon, these readers have, like Janie, made their voices heard in the world of letters, revising the canon while asserting their proper place in it” From Mary Helen Washington’s Foreword
Most of what we’ve read so far have dealt with the white, male patriarchy. How does Hurston depict the black, male patriarchy in this novel? Is it any different from the white, male patriarchy? is Washington right, does Janie redefine and revise this predominantly black, male dominated world that Hurston has created?
"So long as they get a name to gnaw on they don't care whose it is, and what about, 'specially if they can make it sound like evil"
ReplyDeletePeople are going to talk about others. It happens all the time. People talk regardless, sometimes even to make themselves look good. people twist words and say things that are not true, or dont even tell the whole truth. I just dont know why Janie would put her self in that situation even though she has nothing to come back to or left nothing behind in the Glades. Not that she cares what people say about her. I just find as if she is worth better then the things her neighbors say behind her back. And even men talk behind peoples backs especially women.
She's Gotta Have It- film by Spike Lee (a parallel to Their Eyes Were Watching God) "Nola Darling: It's really about control, my body, my mind. Who was going to own it? Them? Or me?"
It seems out of all the things we have read in class, men seem to be lurking in the shadows or are very depicted in a story. When will there come a time when a woman can write a novel or an essay and not bring up the notion of a man? can Women write with out ever bringing up men? Men do it all the time, as if women would never exist if they were not written into reality, so why can't women do the same with men?
I do not think that a women can ever not write about a man because, as women it has been socially in grained in us to feel bad about anything we do or say towards men in passive aggressive ways. We have been made to feel bad about things we do or say. And in that turn because we do not want to feel bad any more we either stop doing what we were doing or let the aggression continue.
Delete"Dat's right, blame everything on me. Ah wouldn't let you show no feelin'!...Now you come blame me"
Their Eyes Were Watching God-- Hurston
ReplyDelete“The years took all the fight out of Janie’s face. For a while she thought it was gone from her soul. No matter what Janie did, she said nothing. She had learned how to talk some and leave some. She was a rut in the road. Plenty of life beneath the surface but it was kept beaten down by the wheels. Sometimes she stuck out into the future, imagining her life different from what it was. But mostly she lived between her hat and her heels, with her emotional disturbances like shade patterns in the woods – come and gone with the sun.” (pg 76)
Washington—Forward
“Sterling Brown said in 1936 of her earlier book Mules and Men that it was not bitter enough, that it did not depict the harsher side of black life in the South, that Hurston made black southern life appear easygoing and carefree.”
Guiding Questions: The forward for the book shows the pushback that it initially received from the male African American community. Women, however, found this book easy to identify with. Was it, perhaps, that the male audience found it more difficult to identify partially because the book had a female protagonist? Or do you think that their prejudice really was solely based on what they considered contemporary inaccuracies?
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ReplyDelete"Here, finally, was a woman on a quest for her own identity and, unlike so many other questing figures in black literature, her journey would take her, not away from ,but deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the Everglades with its rich, black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions."
ReplyDelete(Forward, xi, Washington)
"Sometimes God gits familiar wid us womenfolks too and talks His inside business. He told me how surprised He was 'bout y'all turning out so smart after Him making' yuh different; and how surprised y'all is goin' tuh be if you ever find out you don't know half as much 'bout us as you think you do. It's so easy to make yo'self out God Almighty when you ain't got nothin' tuh strain against but women and chickens."
"You gettin' too moufy, Janie," Starks told her. "Go fetch me de checker-board and de checkers. Sam Watson, you'se mah fish.""
(Their Eyes Were Watching God, p. 75)
Guiding questions:
Washington suggests that Janie is on a quest for her own identity. What is she trying to learn about herself? As a woman? As a person of color? What does she learn about herself, and how? How is Janie different from white female protagonists?
I think Janie is striving to learn who she is as an individual, as a woman who isn't tied down to a man, and/or a woman who is capable of being independent, strong, and having her own voice, despite romantic affiliations. Janie's own voice is very important to her and to the identity she is trying to find/achieve, and she wants the opportunity to use it freely. However, sometimes her independence and her voice are oppressed because she is a woman. This is first seen in chapter two when her grandmother claims she wants to have Janie married off, and Janie is not afraid to admit that she does not want anything to do with a husband.
DeleteThroughout the book, Janie learns of her own strength, resilience, and the independence she finds through those other qualities and through certain events in her life that require her to have such qualities.
Janie is different from many white female protagonists I have read before in that she is not afraid to speak her mind, to have her own voice, etc. However, she is also different because of the environments and communities she is a part of, which seem much more communal, public, and all-knowing than settings containing white protagonists, which I think is in part due to the storytelling aspect of this book and the communities within. Janie is much more included in the sense of community, partially because she asserts herself and inserts herself into the communities she is a part of.
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ReplyDelete“The language of men in Their Eyes is almost always divorced from any kind of interiority, and the men are rarely shown in the process of growth. Their talking is either a game or a method of exerting power.” (xv)
ReplyDelete-Foreword Their Eyes Were Watching God Mary Helen Washington
“Dat’s ‘cause you need tellin’,” he rejoined hotly. “It would be pitiful if Ah didn’t. Somebody got to think for women and chillun and chickens and cows. I god, they sho don’t think none theirselves.”
“Ah knows uh few things, an womenfolks thinks sometimes too!”
“Aw naw they don’t. They just think they’s thinkin’. When Ah see one thing Ah understands ten. You see ten things and don’t understand one.” (71)
-Their Eyes Were Watching God Zora Neale Hurston
Guiding Questions: Do you think the way that Joe talks to Janie is a way to gain power because he knows that she is actually much smarter than he makes her out to be in his language? What does his comparison to women and livestock show about his characters?
DeleteI think that Joe talks to and treats Janie the way that he does is because he does realize that she is capable of thinking in ways that may even be more sophisticated than his own way of thinking. An example from the book is when Janie is getting upset when the men in town are harassing the mule and she says that he has already been worked to death. Earlier on Joe was laughing at the treatment of the mule and after he hears her say what she does he stops the men and offers Matt money for his mule so he can set the mule free and let him rest from his labor. This shows that Joe’s idea of saving the mule really came from him hearing Janie’s distress although Joe takes credit for the idea himself.
Joe thinks of women as something to gain power over. He tells Janie that she is not capable of thought as a way to dehumanize her and put her into a lower position than himself. I think that these words stem from a fear within himself that Janie does have thoughts and she has enough thoughts that she will gain power over him by thinking for herself. This moment in the story shows Janie standing up for herself somewhat too and that is why Joe starts to say that he has to think for her as to regain full control of power.
Hurston- "Their Eyes Were Watching God"
ReplyDelete"What was she losing so much time for? A feeling of sudden newness and change came over her. Janie hurried out of the front gate and turned south. Even if Joe was not there waiting for her, the change was bound to do her good."
Washington- "Forward for 'Their Eyes Were Watching God'"
"Here, finally, was a woman on a quest for her own identity, and, unlike so many questing figures in black literature, her journey would take her, not away from, deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the Everglades with its rich black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions."
Guiding Questions: Janie moves through marriages very early within the novel. Why do you think Hurston decided to make these events happen so quickly one after the other? Also, Edna Pontellier, too, was a woman on a quest to discover herself. In what ways are Janie and Edna alike in characteristics, and what ways are they different? What makes their journeys different, even though they are ultimately after the same goal? If both characters were alive in modern times, would they still have the same struggles as they did in their respective time periods?
Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it’s some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don’t know nothin’ but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don’t tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see" (14)
ReplyDeletehttp://newsreel.org/guides/race/whiteadv.htm
Guiding Question: How can we one have their own identity regardless of race, sex or social status and maintain power without their identity being affected by it?
Their Eyes Were Watching God – Zora Neale Hurston
ReplyDelete"Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as fur as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it’s some place way off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don’t know nothin’ but what we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de nigger man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don’t tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De nigger woman is de mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see. Ah been prayin’ fuh it tuh be different wid you" (17).
Forward – Mary Helen Washington
“Here, finally, was a woman on a quest for her own identity and, unlike so many other questing figures in black literature, her journey would take her, not away from, but deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the everglades with its rich black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions” (xi).
Guiding Questions: When someone is on a journey to find their own identity, how must it feel to have someone tell you there is a whole race of people against you? Do you think this comment discouraged or empowered her? Is it important for authority figures to prepare younger people for the challenges in the world or should they let them experience them on their own? Is it different between race, gender, and sexual orientation? All oppression is connected, but does someone at risk of oppression need to have a preceding warning? What happens to those who do not get these warnings?
"They bowed down to him rather, because he was all things and then again he was all these things because the town bowed down," (Their Eyes Are Watching God, 59).
ReplyDelete"A leader without a clear vision and plans only abuses power because visions, dreams and plans are the fulcrum along with the loads of success will spine by your own efforts. And where power is abused, there is manipulation instead of inspiration." -Israelmore Ayvior
Was Janie actually better off with Joe, or should she have stayed loyal to her first husband? How are these two men so different, yet so alike? What does the switching from abusers say about Janie? Could her grandma's manipulation be a sly form of abuse which set Janie up to jump from relationship to relationship based on initial interaction yet staying after things turned sour?
I definitely think Jamie's grandma was an abuser. She was incredibly manipulative, which is a form of abuse very often overlooked.
Delete"Ah couldn't love yuh no more if Ah had uh felt yo' birth pains mahself. Fact uh de matter, Ah loves yuh a whole heap more'n Ah do yo' mama, de one Ah did birth... You ain't got nobody but me," (18).
By saying this, Nanny made Janie feel bad and indebted to her. Janie puts her trust in this woman because she has no one else and therefore is incredibly misguided. This lends itself to her first marriage.
Her first marriage was a direct result of the aforementioned quote from Nanny. Janie was guilt ed into marrying a man, and lied to that she would grow to love him, because the person who said "you ain't got nobody but me" told her it was so. If the only person she believed to have on her side said it was true, then it must be true.
Then Nanny dies and Joe comes into the picture. Joe is nice to Janie in a way she was not used to. Her husband was treating her like turd, even more so after the passing of her grandmother. Joe saunters into town and treats her like a person in a way she was not used to.
"Shirley Anne Williams remembers going down to a conference in Los Angeles in 1969 where the main speaker, Toni Cade Bambara, asked the women in the audience, "Are the sisters here ready for Tea Cake?" And Williams, remembering that Tea Cake had his flaws, responded, "Are the Tea Cakes of the world ready for us?"
ReplyDelete- Washington Foreword (xi)
"What was she losing so much time for? A feeling of sudden newness and change came over her. Janie hurried out of the front gate and turned south. Even if Joe was not there waiting for her, the change was bound to do her good."
- Hurston, Their Eyes Were Watching God (pg.40)
Guiding Question:
On Tumblr I recently saw a post that says "Empowered women empower women." Their Eyes Were Watching God showed women of the time that women were not always weak and weak willed, that they could stand their ground and discover who they are. Still, like the woman at the convention, when questions are directed to crowds it's "are you ready for (typically male character)?!" why do you think the put emphasis on the male characters still when there are such wonderful female characters around?
8. Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston & Foreword by Mary Helen Washington 2-24-16
ReplyDelete- Quote from the text:
“The rose of the world was breathing out smell. It followed her through all her waking moments and caressed her in her sleep. It connected itself with other vaguely felt matters that had struck her outside observation and buried themselves in her flesh. Now they emerged and quested about her consciousness.” (Hurston 10-11)
- Foreword Quote:
“. . . unlike so many other questing figures in black literature, (Janie’s) journey would take her, not away from, but deeper and deeper into blackness, the descent into the Everglades with its rich black soil, wild cane, and communal life representing immersion into black traditions” (Washington xi).
- Guiding Question:
Our society has been so dominated by the figure of and structures created by the white male that other voices have been suppressed. Are different nationalities and races heard in the country supposedly founded on being a melting pot and freedom? The things we have always been so proud of appear to be lacking here. . . .
Can you think of other strong heroines in literature? (ones who aren’t “pathetic” or “tragic mulatto(s)”?) Other heroes or heroines of other races in literature? What time period are they from? Are more of them contemporary or earlier decades / centuries?
Their Eyes Were Watching God - Hurston
ReplyDelete"Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly."
Washington- "Forward for 'Their Eyes Were Watching God'"
"For most Black women discovering their Eyes were watching God for the first time was Janie Crawford."
Question:Their Eyes Were Watching God is a book that for me really defined intersectionality. Zora Neale Hurston is often criticized however because she lived as a free black women, yet her writing allows even white women to empathize. How can one act as a voice for an entire group of people? Are there problems with Zora's depiction of black women? Are there problems with Zora being the author of a book about how blak women are "the mules of the world."
"What she doin coming back here in dem overhalls? Can’t she find no dress to put on? – Where’s dat blue satin dress she left here in? – Where all dat money her husband took and died and left her? – What dat ole forty year ole ‘oman doin’ wid her hair swingin’ down her back lak some young gal? – Where she left dat young lad of a boy she went off here wid? – Thought she was going to marry? – Where he left her? – What he done wid all her money? – Betcha he off wid some gal so young she ain’t even got no hairs – Why she don’t stay in her class?" Their Eyes Were Watching God
ReplyDelete"...For most black women readers... what was most compelling was the figure of Janie Crawford-- powerful, articulate, self-reliant and radically different from any woman character they had ever before encountered in literature."
Guiding Question
Women have always looked up to other strong women, and yet it seems a common occurrence for strong women to tear other strong women down. How do you think different audiences reacted to Janie Crawford? What kind of people wouldn't have liked her? How can women better support each other in today's society?
"What she doin coming back here in dem overhalls? Can’t she find no dress to put on? – Where’s dat blue satin dress she left here in? – Where all dat money her husband took and died and left her? – What dat ole forty year ole ‘oman doin’ wid her hair swingin’ down her back lak some young gal? – Where she left dat young lad of a boy she went off here wid? – Thought she was going to marry? – Where he left her? – What he done wid all her money? – Betcha he off wid some gal so young she ain’t even got no hairs – Why she don’t stay in her class?" Their Eyes Were Watching God
ReplyDelete"...For most black women readers... what was most compelling was the figure of Janie Crawford-- powerful, articulate, self-reliant and radically different from any woman character they had ever before encountered in literature."
Guiding Question
Women have always looked up to other strong women, and yet it seems a common occurrence for strong women to tear other strong women down. How do you think different audiences reacted to Janie Crawford? What kind of people wouldn't have liked her? How can women better support each other in today's society?
My question is very critical and it’s hard for me to respond in an unbiased manner. Hurston is one of my favorite authors, and this book very much defines femininity for me. I don’t think it was Hurston’s goal to speak for an entire group of people. She’s a novelist. She was trying to write a novel.
ReplyDeleteReading Washington’s Forward upset me. The black male critics of the day didn’t get it. Sure Hurston did not live Janie’s life, but what she wrote was far from quaint, far from pandering, but what do I know, I’m white. Nothing in Their Eyes Were Watching god seemed envious, to me it depicted a struggle. It wasn’t talking about the white black struggle because Hurston wasn’t trying to speak for all black people. She was writing about the struggle between men and women. Men and women who are both oppressed. I think this novel is necessary for black women because white feminism doesn’t depict their plight.
Hurston was attacked because she was critical of black men, she was also critical of black women. She showcased the way the oppressed oppress each other. The line I chose to quote depicts the flaws of women. They help keep themselves oppressed by refusing to break the mold. It can be argued that Hurston thought that black people were keeping themselves oppressed. I think this is true, not to say that oppressors aren’t oppressing but that the oppressed come to believe certain Myths about themselves.